Support for the DIY speaker builder

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FrankL
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:12 am

Re: The Kairos thread

Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:55 am

I'd love to see a 2.5 way Kairos. TMM.

Are you listening, Jeff? :D
 
lhquam
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:01 am

Re: The Kairos thread

Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:17 am

DSC_0017-red900-crop.JPG


Here is my Kairos build with rotary cut Bubinga over baltic birch. The sound of these speakers driven with a Pass F4 clone is amazing.
 
richidoo
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:34 pm

Re: The Kairos thread

Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:21 pm

SEXY! Nice build Ihquam! Is it ported or sealed?

Looks like a 3/4 roundover? Nice veneer job! Bookmatched!

F4 is the 0 voltage gain version? What preamp do you use?

Welcome to the forum!
 
Jeff B.
Topic Author
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:40 pm
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
Contact:

Re: The Kairos thread

Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:01 pm

lhquam wrote:
DSC_0017-red900-crop.JPG


Here is my Kairos build with rotary cut Bubinga over baltic birch. The sound of these speakers driven with a Pass F4 clone is amazing.


Very Nice!
Jeff's Excel Loudspeaker Design Software
http://audio.claub.net/software/jbabgy/jbagby.html
 
lhquam
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:01 am

Re: The Kairos thread

Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:41 pm

I built the cabinet with the port as supplied in the Meniscus kit, but I typically plug the port with leftover dacron.

Yes, that is a 3/4" roundover.

The preamp for my F4 is described here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-lab ... ost3797109 It is based on John Curl's Blowtorch preamp and the LSK pre - BAF 2013 http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-lab ... 013-a.html. The preamp is driven by a Buffalo-III SE DAC.
 
lhquam
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:01 am

Re: The Kairos thread

Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:26 pm

Jeff:

Do you any significant performance differences between the following Satori crossover/cabinet designs?
One can expect some differences due to cabinet edge diffraction.

1) Your Kairos cabinet and crossover
2) Your Adelphos crossover with a .5 or .75 cu-ft PE cabinet with or without grill
3) Joachim Gerhard's Kalasan pyramid cabinet and crossover
 
richidoo
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:34 pm

Re: The Kairos thread

Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:55 pm

One of my fav features of the Kairos is the very linear-ish phase response for a passive crossover speaker. I love speakers with flat phase, it sounds very relaxed and natural compared to the typical uptight LR4 3way ported hifi speakers with phase all over the place. Another flat phase speaker design that sounds relaxed and "musical" like this are the Danley horns like SH-50. Once you get used to it, you can feel the tension in other speakers. The slanted baffle is key to the Kairos achieving the such a flat phase response.

Gerhard's crossover looks very nice though. I would like to try that sometime too.
 
Jeff B.
Topic Author
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:40 pm
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
Contact:

Re: The Kairos thread

Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:26 pm

lhquam wrote:
Jeff:

Do you any significant performance differences between the following Satori crossover/cabinet designs?
One can expect some differences due to cabinet edge diffraction.

1) Your Kairos cabinet and crossover
2) Your Adelphos crossover with a .5 or .75 cu-ft PE cabinet with or without grill
3) Joachim Gerhard's Kalasan pyramid cabinet and crossover


As metioned, the Kairos is designed to be a quasi-transient perfect design with linear phase response. It also uses fairly shallow slopes, which have a different off-axis response than higher slope designs, with the shallow slope designs being smoother off-axis.

The Adelphos use the same drivers but is designed for a more conventional flat baffle. Since it will then have a fairly typical offset between the woofer and tweeter I went with a more conventional 4th order LR acoustic crossover. This means that although I matched the on-axis response, it has steeper slopes and more phase rotation, and isn't as smooth off-axis. However, it is still a good design and comparable in a lot of ways to other conventional high-end designs that use LR4 in-phase crossovers.

Joachim's final Kalasan crossover looks pretty good and kinda falls in-between my two crossovers in terms of slope and phase response. I noticed that his does not employ as much baffle step compensation as my crossover does, so it may sound a bit thinner when placed out away from the walls, but may be more balanced when near a wall. It's just a different strokes for different folks sorta thing. Joachim is an excellent designer that I have a lot of respect for, so I would expect version to be well-designed too.

Jeff B.
Jeff's Excel Loudspeaker Design Software
http://audio.claub.net/software/jbabgy/jbagby.html
 
cOz
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:27 pm

Re: The Kairos thread

Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:32 pm

Any news on the RAAL version?
 
DEQXter
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:02 pm

Re: The Kairos thread

Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:19 pm

Jeff,
Hope all is well and in catching up on the thread, happy to see all the critical acclaim for the design and appreciation for your detailed and thoughtful responses.

For both good and tragic reasons two Kairos kits may be in my near feature: a close friend who is hankering for some high end magic under a grand will be one recipient.

Those I will likely build as close to stock as possible but without a table saw at my disposal, I may have to cobble an extension onto a flat pack to get the baffle slope and internal volume right. He wil likely be one very happy camper as he has the kind of small room and musical tastes to get a real charge out of them, yet for whatever reason has never had the pleasure of owning really good stuff.

The tragic news is that my speakers were stolen two weeks ago. During my interaction with you last March when I was building them I had already bought 4 Usher 8948a woofers, and based on your recommendations decided on the Satori tweeters.All went into some of those PE curvy cabs (1.0 ft^3) which underdamped (the bass Q was like 0.5) but still had great punch and articulation was beyond reproach. All of this was handled by an older DEQX and 6 channels of amplification.

Certainly sounded as good as anything I had previously owned. The addition of an 18" Dayton reference series woofer driven by was not a huge revelation--I've had better bass (IB dual 18"s with XBL motors), but the top to bottom poise and dynamics were pretty terrific that these are all moving coil drives intended for home use. All of this is leading somewhere....

Bear in mind that I'm pushing 60 and likely have a 20+db hearing loss. But the tweeter was among a handful that I have owned and had not a hint of glare, harshness or fatigue. And one tough transducer--SVR (Tin Pan Alley)guitar riffs at shock volumes clean as can be imagined bouncing around the ceiling and everywhere else with nary a trace if distortion. I was in hog heaven.

Anyhow to cut to the chase, some kids broke in though a window and stole the speakers, jewelry, laptops, I-pads our large Panny plasmas--now impossible to replace-- and my wife's jewelry, all of it.

NOW the silver lining in this particular cloud--they got spooked and left all my electronics, the smaller Panasonic plasma, and subwoofer. Now I can pursue an experiment I have always wanted to do--take an extremely well designed two way like the Kairos that has great FR and quasi transient perfect response and compare the results with a DEQX implementation using ultra steep digital XO's.

The first kit will be subject to three configurations:
1) the stock speakers using their minimum phase network of your design and the front baffle slope

2) Still using the passive XO's try it with the DEQX using it to in theory at least clean up the FR and phase even more.

3) Finally using all the DEQX capabilities--both using digital filters up plus corrections of the driver non-linearities. The passive XO's will be removedd from the signal path.

My hope is it may help me understand better the pros and cons of each approach.

I need to first figure out the switching so we can go back and forth in quasi random sequence. Even if I have a clear preference I hope to have an extended shootout where audio buffs in the ABQ area can come by and listen.

I will then say goodbye to the first kit and then plan on developing a 2.5 using these 2 drivers or maybe a 3 way with some active subs like what you describe. I just can't foresee the one woofer a side being able to handle the dynamics I crave on occasion. Hope to get started with the process this w/e. Any suggestions or thoughts welcome...

Thanks for the inspiration,
John
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