Support for the DIY speaker builder

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 9
 
jf4828
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:48 pm

Re: The Kairos thread

Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:34 am

Jeff B. wrote:
The measurement shown in the first post was with the speaker sitting on a 25" stand in the middle of my living room with some furniture moved into the dining room reduce reflections. The mic is set on a stand pointed directly at the tweeter at the same height and one meter away. I take a sweep, look at the impulse, and determine the time to first reflection, then set my gate just prior to that, then take the measurement. However, with OmniMic I can display a blended response, so above about 300Hz it is gated quasi-anechoic and below that it is blended with the room response. This gives a reasonably accurate picture though, and I like this feature.

So, as you have already gathered, taking my measurement in this way I am 14 degrees off-axis on the tweeter. What you see in my response curve is a 14 degree measurement. If I raise the mic and take an orthogonal measurement there is a rising response at 20khz. This doesn't seem to be an issue though.

As for a full Quasi-anechoic response I believe one is displayed on page 20 of the pdf file I provided a link to above.

In a small room this speaker has surprisingly deep bass response, just ask Woodsart in his Kairos thread. This is one of the things that really surprised him.

Jeff


Hi Jeff,

Thanks for clearing this up for me:) I've measured quite a few loudspeakers and just wanted to make sure I knew what I was looking at as everyone measures things a little differently. Without a point of reference it is difficult to interpret.

Low distortion, phase coherent bookshelf that plays linear to 50Hz....... This really does set a new precedence.

My best,

Joel
 
Glen C
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:53 pm

Re: The Kairos thread

Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:41 pm

Kudos Jeff!
I am seriously considering using 3 Karios speakers to replace my B&W L,C,R channels. I have a few simple questions. Can these speakers be bi-amped? Do you have any experience with them bi-amped? Do you foresee any problems placing the Center speaker vertical very near the floor under my plasma TV?
Thanks,
Glen
 
Jeff B.
Topic Author
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:40 pm
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
Contact:

Re: The Kairos thread

Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:38 am

Glen C wrote:
Kudos Jeff!
I am seriously considering using 3 Karios speakers to replace my B&W L,C,R channels. I have a few simple questions. Can these speakers be bi-amped? Do you have any experience with them bi-amped? Do you foresee any problems placing the Center speaker vertical very near the floor under my plasma TV?
Thanks,
Glen


It could be wired easily enough for bi-wiring / bi-amping. Just ask Mark for an additional set of binding posts per cabinet. However, I wouldn't bypass the passive crossover if you run the two drivers with different amps. If you do that you don't really have the Kairos anymore, you just have a speaker with the Satori drivers.

If you place the center speaker low and have it firing up towards you the frequency response changes a little. Due to the change in time alignment a broad dip of a few dB develops in the crossover region and the since the tweeter is more directly on axis there is more of an emphasis in the top octave. However, I gave this a try and listened to some music this way and although the vocals became a little bit recessed compared to the intended listening position, it wasn't real noticeable and didn't sound bad. It also picked up a little bass from the floor coupling. Not really the intended use for the speaker, but would probably work as well as anything placed near the floor.

Jeff
Jeff's Excel Loudspeaker Design Software
http://audio.claub.net/software/jbabgy/jbagby.html
 
Glen C
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:53 pm

Re: The Kairos thread

Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:08 pm

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I understand the importance of not bypassing the high-pass and low-pass filters of your crossover when bi-amping the Kairos. Bi-amping made a significant improvement to the sound of my front B&W speakers so I would like to try it with the Karios.
It was very kind of you to give my center channel idea a try and provide us with your valuable feedback. Would an Adelphos be a better under the TV panel center channel match for a L and R Karios pair? Please tell us what would you would recommend?
Thanks,
Glen
 
Jeff B.
Topic Author
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:40 pm
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
Contact:

Re: The Kairos thread

Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:49 pm

Glen C wrote:
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I understand the importance of not bypassing the high-pass and low-pass filters of your crossover when bi-amping the Kairos. Bi-amping made a significant improvement to the sound of my front B&W speakers so I would like to try it with the Karios.
It was very kind of you to give my center channel idea a try and provide us with your valuable feedback. Would an Adelphos be a better under the TV panel center channel match for a L and R Karios pair? Please tell us what would you would recommend?
Thanks,
Glen


How will you aim the Adelphos?
Jeff's Excel Loudspeaker Design Software
http://audio.claub.net/software/jbabgy/jbagby.html
 
Glen C
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:53 pm

Re: The Kairos thread

Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:41 pm

I have a lot of flexibility to do what sounds best. The bottom of my plasma TV panel is 22" above the floor. There is no furniture between the speakers and my listening sofa. I am using an Onkyo NR-3010 receiver and can specify the distance to each speaker. The rear of my listening room is open to the rest of my house. I listen to acoustic jazz and classical music primarily. Right now I am listening to the DSD version of "Jazz at the Pawnshop"
 
richidoo
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:34 pm

Re: The Kairos thread

Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:56 pm

I discovered an interesting thread on the Danish audio forum speakerbuilder.dk about Satori. The designer of the Satori drivers, Ulrik Schmidt participates on that forum and answers a lot of questions. One in particular is about the FR dip at 1200Hz on pg 7. There are some positive comments about the sound of the mid-woofer on pg 8-9.

Translated by Google (thanks to Bear from htguide.com for the link)
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=da&u=http://forum.speakerbuilder.dk/forum_posts.asp%3FTID%3D352%26title%3Dsb-zantori&ei=-OfPTqD1C-n20gHyuK0n&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CD0Q7gEwAg&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dusxx%2Bsatori%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DfrM%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26prmd%3Dimvns
 
richidoo
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:34 pm

Re: The Kairos thread

Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:37 pm

Jeff, how goes work on the Kairos derivatives? Like RAAL version, MTM version, or even a 3 way?
 
Jeff B.
Topic Author
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:40 pm
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
Contact:

Re: The Kairos thread

Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:34 pm

richidoo wrote:
Jeff, how goes work on the Kairos derivatives? Like RAAL version, MTM version, or even a 3 way?


I have the Satori - RAAL MT complete, and I am beginning to work on the MTM version. I will send Mark the details soon.

I have thought about using the Kairos as the top part of a three-way and have entertained several different woofers, but have not had a chance to really do anything in that direction yet.

Maybe someday.... I think I would like that speaker for myself, so that's my motivation.

Jeff
Jeff's Excel Loudspeaker Design Software
http://audio.claub.net/software/jbabgy/jbagby.html
 
MJK
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 5:58 pm
Location: Clifton Park, NY
Contact:

Re: The Kairos thread

Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:12 pm

I have to admit I have beeen looking real hard at the Satori drivers. My thinking is to apply what I have learned from working with full range drivers for the past few years. Getting the box to make more of the bass and attenuate the driver motion over a wider frequency range then typical seen in a simple closed or ported enclosure. The Satori woofer has a low enough fs and a decent Qts so a back loaded horn design would seem to be possible. Bigger enclosure for deeper and more powerful bass output compared to the usual monkey coffin designs. So I am currently upgrading my TL worksheets to handle the full passive crossover design required to look at this in more detail. Should be able to start seriously in the fall.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 9

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest